Thursday, May 08, 2008

Stopping Power Considered: 9mm vs. .45

Here is another great post by Elton in his audition to be a contributing author at LITGM.

The debate over “stopping power” rages on among defensive handgun circles. What constitutes the best set of tradeoffs between capacity, weight, concealment, and one-shot neutralization? The only clear consensus is at the extremes. A .22 caliber is clearly too small for meaningful defense (but better than a spit wad if it’s all you’ve got) while a .50 cal Desert Eagle hand-cannon is sufficient for even the biggest game but impractical for daily use (unless you’re Lara Croft).

In between, popular options range from the .380 Auto (generally considered the smallest of the acceptable defensive rounds) to the 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP in automatic weapons, along with the .38 Special and .357 Magnum for wheelgunners.
I’ve never had to shoot a live assailant (and hope I never have to), but I know guys who have and gunlore is filled with their sordid stories. My buddy (we’ll call him The Captain) returned last year from his 2nd tour of duty in Iraq where he ran a Scout Platoon for the 4th Infantry Division near Najaf. Over drinks one night back home he told me that it took multiple rounds from his trusty M9 Beretta 9mm to take down an attacking assailant while the Spec Ops guy next to him, unfettered with an Army issued sidearm, blew the vitals clear out through an insurgent’s backside with one shot from his .45.

Now I’ve seen The Captain light matches at distance with a rifle bullet, but even he admits to being less than a crack shot with the pistol. I can imagine that accuracy played some part in the outcome with several of The Captain’s 9mm rounds going astray in the frenzied heat of the battle while a seasoned dead-eye Green Beret may have nailed his target front-and-center on the first try. But aside from anecdotal stories and myths, what do the facts of science suggest about cartridge effectiveness?

At the end of the day, bullets are simply delivery tools of destructive kinetic energy. Kinetic energy is governed by two variables, mass and velocity under the equation Ke = ½MV2. But the terms do not drive energy equally. Double the mass of a bullet and energy doubles. But double the velocity of the round and energy quadruples as an exponential function. This is the crux of the small-and-fast versus big-and-slow argument.

Below is a sampling of some popular rounds taken from factory handgun ballistics tables ranked in ascending order of kinetic energy. These are representative numbers and actual stats for each caliber can vary depending on bullet weight and powder charge, so view them as directional.
Interestingly, you can see the kinetic energy relationship clearly in the table. A .357 Magnum round (widely considered a premier man-stopper even today) is simply a supercharged .38 Special. At the exact same bullet weight, energy increases by 133% with a mere 50% increase in velocity.

Conversely, the 10mm found brief popularity during a 1980’s selection by the FBI (and Sonny Crockett of Miami Vice) as their official round and it’s initially easy to see why. It carries nearly .357 Magnum performance in a semi-auto package with a smaller and more packable diameter than the .45. The round was soon de-commissioned, however, when some agents had trouble handling the powerful load and the large-framed weapons required to shoot it during duty. The result was a downsized 10mm christened the .40 S&W with a lighter weight bullet requiring a smaller powder charge but one that sacrificed minimal performance due to its comparable velocity.

Based on kinetic energy, the 9mm and .45 look evenly matched, so what gives? Why do combat vets continually hearken for the days of the old big-slug Colt 1911 despite the lower capacity and arguably trickier carrying characteristics than the newer M9? I think the answer may be in the energy transfer.

The Geneva Convention requires that only ball ammunition be used during warfare which means a small and smooth copper-jacketed 9mm round traveling at a blistering 1,200 fps will likely pass completely through a target depositing a big portion of its energy into whatever happens to be behind it. The bigger .45 traveling at sub-sonic speeds may be more likely to stop inside the target where it expends more of its destructive energy.

Cops and civilians have the fortunate option of using hollow-point ammunition. The mushrooming effect of these rounds on impact help expend energy inside the target which I suspect would have an equalizing effect on .45 versus 9mm performance in real life.

So what’s the ideal defensive round? At this point I’d have to say the law enforcement agencies may be on to something with the .40 S&W. It’s an elegant compromise between velocity and mass in a reasonably shootable round with good capacity in a manageable pistol form.

That said, I shoot both a .45 and 9mm opting for the nine for practice and competition due to cheaper ammo, fewer mag changes, and more controllable double-taps. Initially I was concerned that the 9’s defensive characteristics might be too weak for personal protection. But after digging into the matter, and due to my experience and accuracy with the round, I’d feel very comfortable packing a reliable 9mm with good quality +P hollow-point ammunition for a defensive situation.

29 comments:

Andy said...

Dear Sir, If you had to choose between a 9mm or 45acp for home protection which would it be ? I now have 9mm's but I'm afraid thats not enough stopping power.

Andy

Dan from Madison said...

Andy, Please read the above.

But in the end, you should go with what is the most comfortable and reliable for YOU.

Mike said...

Great post, I must say. One big argument with the old debate is accuracy as you touched on a little. If you're good enough and know where to hit, you don't need a big gun to stop somebody. And honestly, if I personally were approaching someone and they sent even a full metal jacket 9mm through me - I'd probably rethink my priorities, ha ha. But of course like Dan said, it's whatever you like. Again, good writing.

VOZITESI said...

l would go for the 50AE for home defense l will not take eny chances to put my family in danger in case the 9mill or eny other round fails l know that the 50AE wil stop eny one with one shot to the chest or stomach iven if l hit him in the leg hi will go down but for having a gun with me 24/7 were ever l go it will be the .40 S&W or .357 magnum

Anonymous said...

Something that not all people consider is what's it like to fire a round in the dark with no hearing protection. I've had the misfortune of an accidental discharge in my house.
I was left with ringing ears and quite rattled for a good hour.... that was a .40... I've read a .357 will leave you with hearing loss and permanant ringing... I want to get rid of the bad guy, but I don't want to maim myself in the process.... I hate to think of what it must be like to fire off several .357s inside. I'm sold on the Corbon 9mm, it does the job without rattling your teeth in a real life situation.

Dan from Madison said...

Anon - an excellent point wrt the volume/effects of a firearm going off. I own a .357 myself and cannot imagine how loud that would be if I fired it in my house without hearing protection.

Matt From Missouri said...

I have heard that many times over about a .357. Me and my buddy that owns a .40 and .45 1911 will swear up and down on them. Of course when i can double tap a round quicker on target and more accurate mind you, on a target 21 feet away, he always seems to hush.

I will stick to my Ruger with its 9mm luger HP, and my new .38 spec Taurus with +p ammo. Low noise low recoil very dependable and accurate round.

Anonymous said...

A 9mm hollow point will outperform a .45ACP of almost any variety. If you're out in the desert and under the restrictions of the Geneva Convention, okay, run...don't walk...and get yourself a decent .45 auto. But if you can use JHPs, the venerable .45 loses a great deal of its legendary superiority.

A 9mm 115gr JHP +P will usually knock any .45 round out of the ball park. And a standard JHP will usually at least do as well as any .45. If I could use a 185gr JHP +P .45 round, I'd take it over the standard 9mm JHP.

In short, there's not a whole lot of difference in stopping power if you're not restricted in what kind of ammo you use.

romansten9 said...

To address the comments about the noise of firearms, every account I have heard is that people don't even hear or remember the noise of the gun during a confrontation.

romansten9 said...

The caliber debate contains a lot of mis-information. I've been in the medical field over 20 years. Besides being a Paramedic/RN, I have performed hundreds of autopsies. Many people have died from ONE bullet from a .22 and from ONE bullet from a 9mm. Personally, I'd rather focus on shot placement. I prefer a gun that will stay on target and not kick itself off of target.

Anonymous said...

Your graph is wrong, the 10mm actually falls between the 357 magnum and the 41 magnum. One obvious comparison is with the Hornady loads.
A 357mag 158gr is: 1250fps and muzzle energy is 548, the 10mm with 155gr is: 1265fps and muzzle energy is 551. I understand that these numbers are very close. One last item that needs to be noted is that the barrel on the 357mag is 8" while the 10mm is 5".
Even more impressive results come from Double Tap Ammo.

Andrew from Aurora said...

Anonymous: Thanks for your comment. As I stated in the article, "These are representative numbers and actual stats for each caliber can vary depending on bullet weight and powder charge, so view them as directional."

For the math, I used 180gr 10mm @ 1150fps (e.g. the Hornady 9126 JHP) for a kinetic energy of 529. Again, comparable to the .357 as you suggest. More punch than the typical 40S&W.

Doing a quick survey of off-the-shelf ammo, you might see muzzle energy range from 490 (closer to a .40 S&W) with 200gr full metal jacket target ammo, up to nearly 700 with a Glaser Safety Slug.

Which is why the issue is so complex and controversial. There's no single deciding factor in any of this... which is good news for bloggers like us!

Anonymous said...

Just wanna add something here. I've had the misfortune of a .454 casull going off in the house (accidental discharge). My left ear rang for probably 3-4 months after that. I've since bought a 9mm with which I can put 9 rounds to a head in a little less than two seconds. And I don't need ear protection for the 9. The .454 whether indoors or out you ALWAYS need ear protection.

Dan from Madison said...

Holy crap that is a lot of bang inside the house.

Anonymous said...

The energy equation only tells you the amount of energy available as the projectile leaves the gun, but it does not tell you how much energy is lost in flight, and then how much is deposited in the target. A high velocity 9 mm takes a lot of the energy with it as/if it exits. A larger and slower 45 projectile is more likely to deposit more energy in the target. Of course a hollow nose projectile will slow down and leave more energy in the target as it expands.

Anonymous said...

i think we all mean negligent discharge.. ;)

Joe said...

Guys you are worried about your ears ringing? When an intruder is in your house in the middle of the night? lets think about this, what is worse , ears ringing, or dead from intruder? my first line of defense is a 12 ga. with milspec buckshot, I don't give a damn how loud it is, If I am alive and unmaimed, and my 15 yr old daughter is alive and un-raped, I can handle saying "how was that?" for a few hours, (and I am not believing days of deafness from a single gunshot) If this is the criteria you pick your weapon by, your best bet is dialing 911 and hoping they get there in time.

Anonymous said...

Energy doesn't kill nor does it do much to incapacitate. Blood loss kills. Rapid blood loss, structural or central nervous system damage incapacitates.

Bullet placement and performance are the most important. Performance includes adequate penetration to reach vitals and making a large wound cavity.

The .45 does these things more consistently in more adverse conditions (such as against heavy winter clothing than the 9 mm.)

That said, shoot what you are most accurate with (see bullet placement) for best results. And a .45 that penetrates 12" and expands to 0.74" or for that matter a similar 9 mm that expands to 0.65" will have better stopping results than a 44 mag or 50 AE that blows right through.

And that's the truth

Anonymous said...

Take both out to the field and set up ammo cans full of water, ammo cans full of sand. Neither bullet will knock a can full of sand over, neither bullet will exit the other side of the can full of water. Hit cantelopes with each bullet, no difference again. You have 16 rounds in the 9mm, how many in the 45? Case closed, there is a good reason we switched to 9mm, just like why the military left 30 06 for 308 Winchester. No idea why folks cling to the old wives tales.

Anonymous said...

I only use a 22lr for my negligent discharges in the house. My ears only ring as long as my wife is yelling at me!!

Anonymous said...

I had a intruder in my house 1 45 acp shot stoped him my friend in the military had an intruder in his house 8 9mm shots to take him down and he had holes every where in his house where the bullets over penetrated I had 1 in the door

Anonymous said...

My 45 Went through the water and knocked over the sand

Anonymous said...

I want to buy a gen 4 19 Glock for home protection but I can't get the thought out of my head that what if I wake up in the middle of the night thinking there's an intruder in the house and it could be my wife or daughter using the bathroom or getting a drink of water in the dark. That thought alone scares me. On the flip side a 9mm may not have the knock down power of a .40 or.45 but emptying a magazine into an assailant in seconds would do the trick.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Actually if you looked quickly at the ammunition stats in Wikipedia between a .45 and 9mm, the .45 generally has a higher velocity. Just because it's a nine millimeter does not equate it to being a faster bullet.

Anonymous said...

Hey wait... I don't get this. If the 9mm has problems with overpenetration and stopping power, how come the high velocity .357 is such a great stopper? .357 converts to 9.07mm after all. Does the seven hundredths of a millimetre make that much of a difference?

Anonymous said...

Because everything on Wikipedia is correct.

Anonymous said...

I was wondering the above question too bullet shape may have to do w it.. Or the extreme velocity causes expansion

Anonymous said...

I've been in law enforcement and had other training also and every firearms instructor I've had says the same thing, a 22 will stop a person if you put it in the right place. Shot placement is the key not caliber. I have nothing against large caliber handguns but I always just laugh and shake my head when I run into those guys who think you must have a 45, it's just nonsense. I carry a 9mm because ammo is cheap and easy to get. A 9mm will stop whoever I hit with it.