Like a broken watch that is right twice a day we can learn a thing or two from our liberal bretheren. For instance, the power of a boycott.The North Face is a clothing company specializing in outdoor wear. I recently saw this sweatshirt on display at a local store (sorry for the blurry picture, I was being a bit furtive taking the picture).
You can clearly see that this sweatshirt is emblazoned with three things - 1) the CCCP logo 2) the Hammer and Sickle 3) the North Face logo.
I know that it will be obvious to readers of this blog, but CCCP stands for (especially in the context of the Hammer and Sickle icon) - per Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR), as a Latin letter imitation of the Cyrillic Russian initialism СССР (equivalent to SSSR in Latin letters), which stands for Союз Советских Социалистических Республик (in Latin alphabet Soyuz Sovetskikh Sotsialisticheskikh Respublik).
Thus this garment, starring CCCP, the Hammer and Sickle, and North Face's corporate logo, is something that they are proud to place together.
AARRGGHH... The USSR committed horrendous crimes against humanity, most spectacularly to its own people and those that it enslaved including Poland, Romania, the Czech Republic. Although estimates vary widely a rough estimate of outright deaths (MURDERS) would be from 20 MILLION to 60 MILLION. For a taste of these crimes try Gulag by Applebaum or virtually any respectable history book, anywhere.
What's next for North Face? Perhaps a Nazi line featuring the Waffen SS? The Best of Pol Pot? Mao's little Red book?
Do they have ANY understanding of history, and the fact that the crimes of the USSR under the CCCP rank as some of the most foul in the recorded history of man?
Want to do something about it? Tell North Face. Here is their customer service address:
The North Face, Inc.
Customer Service
2013 Farallon Dr.
San Leandro, CA 94577 USA
Comments have been closed on this post due to spam.
51 comments:
Get a grip! If you can still wear Red White and Blue surely someone can wear CCCP
americanbybirthnotbychoice, Get a grip? I think anyone wearing this jacket will need to get a grip when my Ukrainian Uncle who lost most of his family to the CCCP sees it and busts them a new one.
Below is a copy of the e-mail I sent to the North Face:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++===
In light of your current line of CCCP jackets, may I propose that your next line of clothing feature the Nazi Swastika? After all, the Soviet Union murdered over 30,000,000 of its own people during its existence. Why not sell a line of clothing honoring the Nazis - they only murdered 6,000,000 or so.
You just lost a customer.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
They probably won't care about anything except the last line.
Hit them in the pocket!!!!
This jacket is a disgrace. I definitely will consider this when I go to buy jackets this fall.
I can't imagine why elite snob liberals think it's "cute" to revel in the good old days of Communist totalitarianism. How sickening. Almost as sickening as the deafening silence from the Mainstream Media over the seeming popularity of "communist chic" clothing.
Thanks for posting it here.
Silly people. Don't you know commies & nazis hate each other? There's no way North Face would betray their sychopant brethren.
I've never purchased that overpriced junk and I'm certainly never going to. Now I'll also add discouraging reasonable people from doing the same to my repetoire.
Americanbybirth: you are a disgrace - how can you look at yourself in the mirror when you wake up in the morning? You need to read Gulag by Anne Applebaum. Only a few pages should be enough, much less the whole book.
American by birth and not by choice? Then CHOOSE to be somewhere else, or choose to change your citizenship. If America's so awful, then please head to the old USSR in support of this jacket. It's so much better over there, right? Because you're very oppressed by the W "regime?" Leave the logic to those that pay attention to the events of history please.
The irony of exploiting capitalism as a way to promote anti-capitalism. And the hate america crowd will lap it up like loyal little comrades....
I would look at someone wearing this jacket in the same fashion as someone wearing a "white power" garment. How poster number 1 can equate this to patriotism is beyond disgusting. You are free to leave the country at any time. Don't be shocked that we exercise our right to not want you here (not make you leave - just despise you openly). Funny, that whole freedom of dissent thing eh?
So, North Face is aligning itself with an ideology that is responsible for terrorizing and killing at least 100mm people worldwide? If NF is so into communism, why don't they relocate their business and themselves to North Korea or Cuba, and stop trading with the "capitalist pigs."
I will be writing a letter to customer service and cc-ing friends, the local political parties, the embassies/consulates of the Baltic States/Eastern Europe, and some media. NF is an absolute disgrace.
EMAILS:
North Face
tnf_consumerservices@vfc.com
Barbara Feigin
corpgov@vfc.com
I believe Miss Feigin is on the Board of Directors of VF Corp., the parent company of North Face.
I can't afford to replace my NF ski pants, but I'm going to mail them the tag back, cut the stitching out and remove any evidence of the NF logo (no more walking billboard...).
You right-wing chumps are so weak. I love how you equate wearing this jacket, with its cool retro graphics, with an explicit endorsement of the former Soviet Union. Uhh, that's not what its all about, so get a grip. Go wrap yourself in an American flag if it makes you feel better!
Interesting that anonymous equates me with a "right wing chump". I did not realize that hatred of a dictatorship that is responsible for 100M deaths is a political statement.
It isn't. You are an idiot who knows nothing about history.
As far as this being "cool retro graphics", well then I am sure this guy is walking around in his swastika garb, as well, since they are essentially one and the same.
This isn't about liberal vs. conservative. I know many, many liberal people and we may differ on politics but to endorse a murderous group that horrifies the entire civilized world is a different manner entirely...
Yes, this is horrible! I can't believe that The North Face would sink to such a low! This tops all the travesties of the world! Never mind that W is currently trying to slowly strip all Americans of their most basic civil liberties. Yeah, those civil liberties that OUR forefathers wrote down on that piece of parchment...what was that called...maybeee...THE BILL OF RIGHTS...yeah, those meant nothing and by todays standards are out of date. This is much more important than the government buying our phone records, trying to ban same sex marriages, eliminating the middle class, racial profiling, imprisoning 400+ "terrorists" without concrete evidence in Gitmo and "black prisons" in God knows where, numerous other human rights violations, and declaring the American citizens right to protest a federal crime. Hell, we're half way there. Why stop now? In another two years we could be looking at the next Stalin! Learn to embrace that hammer and sickle now people 'cause that's where we're heading.
If this is all that you guys have to complain about in your free time, than you all are more pathetic than I ever could have imagined...no, correction...you all are just incredibly stupid. I feel sorry for all of you. And if you think that your one measly contribution, or lack there of, of purchasing items made by The North Face will break their bank or "Hit them in the pocket!!!" than I have just upgraded your intelligence to retarded. Do you honestly think that you, few sad individuals, boycotting a multi-million dollar corporation like The North Face will really effect their bank roll!?! If anything you have just increased the likelihood of this being a top selling item for the company. Congratulations!!! You have just shot yourself in the foot. Your pathetic attempt at a boycott has given what every capitalist corporation covets above all else. Free advertising, which in hand leads to...yes folks, that's right...PROFIT!
Pick a more noble cause if you want to be pro-active in this society. It's people like you that make me sick to my stomach and sad to call myself an American.
And to you, "Carl from Chicago"...I'm calling you out. So, I can only imagine how terrifying it was growing up in the late 70's and the 80's. Yeah, the Cold War was in full swing by that point. You must have been doing "duck and cover" drills every day in school. Fearing every day that we were one step closer to a nuclear holocaust. Oh...wait...that was the late 50's and 60's with Cuba and the missile crisis. And I'm sick and tired of hearing you praise Reagan. Yes, his charisma and acting skills helped him become a respectable president, but how can you idolize a man who couldn't remember what he said the day before? On top of that, how can you worship a man who based almost half of his actions as prsident on predictions made by an astrologer that his wife saw religiously? You are a sad, sad man. Maybe you should stop wasting your time "preparing" for the next terrorist attack from our "enemies" and actually pick up a newspaper or even watch CNN to see what is truly happening in this screwed up world. You better find your way out of that cave man, otherwise you may find yourself in a situation where you wish you were a little more educated.
huhhuhhuh.
cool.
kick ass.
where can I get one of them rad fasist, comie cccp jackets?
free adevertizing is kickas.
Wow anonymous - pretty good essay there. I didn't realize they had broadband connections out by Area 51.
Hey, people! It's a relica of the USSR soccer team jacket, not the Gulag! Get a life and put your energy to better use.
So, any of the posters who think the graphics are cool and would be awesome to wear around, when will you push North Face to make up swastika/SS jackets, and jackets with burning crosses, and jackets with lynching ropes, and jackets wtih a crumbling World Trade Center, and jackets with.... You get the idea.
what about the US enslaving blacks? taking native american land? chinese workers working on the railroad? americans always site what others do, never what they themselves do
So anonymous all of those non sequiteurs make it ok to glorify a murderous regime that killed over ONE HUNDRED MILLION people? Help me follow the logic, please.
To my knowledge there are no jackets glorifying slavery, native American fighting, chinese workers building the railroad. Should there be? The closest would be team jackets for the Redskins, Indians, Chiefs, Blackhawks, Braves,... and these aren't about celebrating "taking land" or killing anyone.
The CCCP jackets are an affront to all who remember and those who understand what Communism and Stalin et al is about. Those posters here (and the fools who actually pay for this garb) either (1) condone the slaughter, slavery, taking of land, and forced labor associated with Communism & Stalin et al, (2) genuinely don't know or understand the magnitude of the issue, or (3) don't care.
For those of you concerned about Americans blaming other countries or societies, well, it's an American company that is marketing, selling, and profiting from the CCCP logo. That American company is being taken to task by Americans (as well as others).
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I checked the North Face website but do not see the CCCP jackets ("elbrus"). Did they remove them (or, eegads, sell out of them)? Anyone know?
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see, frree advrertizzing is cooooool!!! Congradulashions, youse guyz, you probablie boossted North Faces' bottoom lyne. communism co-opted by capitallismn kicks asss!!!
Yeah, the points about the Soviet regime made here (ie tyrannical, murderous etc.) certainly can't be denied. Having been a kid in the 80's, seeing the "CCCP" only makes me think of the Soviet hockey team and their play during those years. These jackets kind of make me nostalgic for that team, especially seeing what good guys most of them have been in the NHL (most now retired of course - and most hated playing in that jersey). Anyway, I'm sure the Nazis had a good soccer team or something and that is clearly no reason to put out Nazi themed clothing. So I clearly have no argument to stand on. Still now that I've heard about these products, I might buy an item.
Meh, Well I know I'm going to get myself alot of flak for this but I myself am a Communist. I'm not a "ALL HAIL THE PEOPLE'S COMMISAR JOSEPH STALIN" Communist, I actually think for myself outside of Lenin's crap shoot version of Marxism (it isnt real marxism). I myself am a Anarcho-Communist (also known as a libetarian Communist) which more like what Marx Actually intended which means there is no centralized party like the USSR it is only peoples concils which are democratically elected to do act in the common interest of the peoples.
All that aside I can imagine how you see this sweatshirt as offensive. Personally I despise the USSR,China,Cuba,and Northa Korea for their poor interpretation and also the damage they cause the Marxist/Socialist ideology. Because of said nation people consider all communist authoritoian utopianists, which in reality is far from the truth.It's actually funny because in order for Communism to be successful in a country said country must have atleast prospered from fuedalism with the capitalist mode of production, none of these countries are in this category haha.
Well it seems I'm getting of topic so back the shit. In honesty I believe the shirt is mainly vintage for the old soviet hockey team and also I perceive it as a joke, or a gimmic. I wouldnt go so far as to relate it with hilter but I can understand where your comming from for me it stands for all the hatred my ideology has been forced to take due to the authortorian nature of a few pricks ><. With all this in mind I do believe some of the reactions are way
extrme such as saying the north face supports communism ( I actually know the VP of North Face and he is OBVIOUSLY quite the Capitalist).
I lost my train of thought Doh!
Please Excuse my Poor English =D
The best of luck
Anonymous - you are full of crap. The very idea that communism/socialism can actually work is a red herring. It was tried. If you read Lenin, he followed the tenets of Marx to the tee, and was determined to wipe out the kulaks who stood in his way. And he did.
The idology simply cannot work. You can say communism/socialism got hijacked by gangsters, but that is what IT ALWAYS LEADS TO. There are dozens of examples of what the true "idologues" have done over the years. Their names are Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Lenin, Castro, Guevara, Kim, and the list goes on and on. Common thread here? True believers in your "idoeology". Misery, death and massacres in their wake.
If you were to actually take the liberty of enjoying the vast ammounts of summaries provided by the WikiPedia Site . You could see that Communist (in the broadest sence of the word) is not just Lenin's writings, I have read the State and Revolution, I have read What is to be
done?, but all of his works that support the vanguardism of Marxism-Leninism were made just to justify one point. That would that Russia could have a successful socialist regime, (which obviously it did not). Marx wrote that only the countries who have experianced the benefits from the transition from Feudalism--->Capitalism can truly have a successful Communist society being that their is a substantial ammount of wealth to be distributed, in short only the first world can make a successful leap.
Lenin believed contradictary, he believe that he could bypass all of this and go straight into socialism. In order for such a rash theory to be successful require two things
A)A large urban working force
B)A very politically conscience populous.
Neither of which were the case. Russias main populous were illiterate, uneducated, farmers who were virtually living in the fuedal era.
When Lenin was having trouble fending off the arguements of the Menshiviks led by Martov (The opposing socialist party to the bolsheviks-Who also believed they should allow their country to develop into capitalism first then develop socialism) He intrusted Leon Trotsky to hypothesize a theory that supported Lenin's view on Russia. The result was the Theory of Permanent Revolution, this theory states that russia could reach capitalism if a bourgeosie revolution occured (leading into capitalism) and then take that revolution striaght into communism. This theory is first of all obsured due to the fact that it is really not different from rushing to communism in the first place. Leninism is in direct contradiction with one of the largest terms of marxism.
As for Stalin..."Socialism in one state?" I'm not even going to touch that pile of shit.
I think most Socialists would agree with me that Leninism rely's to much on the parts of Marx's writings that are archaic (keep in mind he wrote in the mid-late 1800's some of it just can't apply itself to the modern world. The Communists you are thinking of are the Teenagers who are absorbed by the personality cult of the USSR,China, ETC. and leave little room for their own thoughts and ideas, also most likely to "orthodox" marxists who seems to always take every word marx says and worship it( Most communists are atheists but some of these guys treat him as a diety in place of god).
I believe personally that Marx had a good ground idea and alot of it is obsolete, so I believe in reinterpreting it and applying it in a modern view and perspective. No point in being a communist if you can't learn from the mistakes of Psuedo-Socialists Lenin & Co.
Don't throw all of us into the same idealogy Communism is a broad broad term.
my apologies I'm not a good writer in english.
Salutations
Anonymous - you are a fine writer in English, but a crackpot nonetheless. Lenin was a murderer, not a philosopher. He was a Marxist through and through, no matter what wiki says, no matter what any of your leftist pamphlets say that cannot be disputed. Communism and socialism have been tried again and again and it simply does not work. Communism exclusively is responsible for more deaths than any other event in the history of mankind, excluding disease. And disease isn't even a choice most of the time.
In no way am I advocating Leninism nor in anyway am I also defending his attrocities to human rights.
Lenin shows the dangerousness of the missintperation of the Left of the political spectrum, just as Mussolini can show us the dangerousness of the misinterpretations of the right.
Karl Marx himself said (to theorists useing "Marxism" as a title for their Lenin-like Vanguard Partys)
"If this is Marxism, Then I am not a Marxist"
I believe that in my belief in Libertarian-Communism if the people knew the theory without the title of "Communism" on it, it would be not looked upon with such discontent.
I believe that there is a future in Socialism that the people aren't betrayed by a Zealous Vanguard, I believe in a Socialism that is what it promises...for the people and the people alone. Not to the control of the Common Vox Populi.
If you believe Lenin followed Marx to the word that is a falsification. Lenin was primarily influenced by RUSSIAN Socialists such as plekhankov and many others who's names in all honesty slip my mind. The real only thing that connects the two together is the fact that Lenin called his party no longer the Bolshevik Party but the Communist Party. Also the Personality cult that followed Lenin after his death and during the Stalinization of Russia, The soviets who beleived Lenin was more then a man and held the ideas of the "gods" Marx and Engels in his interpretation of the USSR, is just as much a victim to the Soviet Personality cult as the people who accuse ACTUAL Marxists of being Mass Murders Like Lenin Stalin Mao Or any of that filth. In no way do I support the propaganda machine and neither should you be victim to it.
I believe there is a future for socialism as well...on the ashheap of history, which is where we should all hope it ends up.
As soon as a socialist can explain to me in plain English why I should work my butt off and give someone else my money I will be a convert.
Don't be confused. Communism and socialism have been tried over and over. It always leads to the strongest thug ruling with an iron fist, eliminating those who would challenge him. You can twist and turn in the wind all you want about what variant of Marxism Lenin espoused or how the Chinese good old days of Mao weren't really the "true" commumism. The truth hurts. The truth is that communism and socialism are crackpot theories, developed by crackpots, designed to take money and property away from those who work the hardest to create it.
*Sight* Once again, it seems the the double edged sword of Soviet Propaganda has reared it's head.
As for the money issue that irrelevent figuring money is either not even closely used like it's counterpart of today or won't exist as we know it today. The Community decides, communism is about believing in one's own ability not in some leader/big brother figure.
Property=Individuality in only a sense that the class (the upper class) with the most finances to do so have individuality but truly only a materalistic sense.
But I can't convince to even accept the actual theory as a proper view of socio-economics but obviouly The Failures of Soviet STATE CAPITALISM has burrowed into the minds of many.
I have taken the time to read "The Wealth of Nations" by Adam Smith (God I hope you know who he is) and other such Capitalist writings, in order to understand all sides of the Sociology spectrum. I hope you do the same some day and realize the Illigitmacy in such claims. I'm not forcing my beliefs on you, I'm just saying: in order to make a legitimate critique of a theory one must at least read the writings that make up said theory rather than read a bias history book which both states false material on the THEORY (not the attrocities of some Stalinist Totalitarian) of Communism and even the very system this country uses CAPITALISM ITSELF.
Oh well, you are entitled to your assumption on The Theory of Labor Value and I respect that sir. I just wish your conclusion has more solid data and critique attached.
Best of Luck Mate
The problem with Socialism and Communism (in addition to what's been stated) is that neither is "natural" or in line with human nature. Granted, envy and jealousy and a desire to take from others is present, but the natural and voluntary interactions of humans reaching out to each other to create and elevate trade (i.e., mutually beneficial economic relationships) is absent. Capitalism generally leads and embraces a state of social peace whereas socialism (and its variants) embrace the stability of war.
It has never scientifically established what "Human nature" is. The only real evidence of human nature is three thing: Hungry, Thirsty, and Sexual Lust. Other than that Human's only have nature that coencide's with it's society so that it may survive, or perhaps thrive in it's enviroment. Not to say their can't be someone who is greedy in a communist society or someone who pursues caring for the community over himself in a capitalist one, it's just in said scenario these people are the minority.
Look at the early christians they lived in communes and lived peacefully (in fact if human nature does exist then religous morality is asking us to contradict it). Or even the Paris Commune, in which there was great success. I don't want to force the world into a socialist way of life I just want their to be a place for the average joe to go and live outside of work to survive and outside of wages/money and bills and just live a life he can enjoy.
Cheers!
To Dan from Madison -
Methinks ye be bested by Anon, matey....give it up, man - mirth and bluster do not win arguements, my brainwashed middle american friend, logic and reason coupled by knowledge culled from actual respected, timetested sources do. The GOP propaganda machine that is Fox News does not fall into that category. For once, take a deep breath, ignore your public-grade-school-brainwashing pool of 'knowledge' (one that we ALL were forcefed, by the way) and look through unbiased eyes at capitalism and the world at large. Do you REALLY think that capitalism, American capitalism, is the answer? Would you think the same if you lived in a third-world country and spent your life watching the U.S., the world's neighborhood bully, push your motherland around? Would you think the same if you lived your life watching American capitalist companies line their pockets while buttraping your impovershed nation home? I think not.
Dan, do yourself a favor (and all of us, for that matter). Stop looking at the USSR/CCCP/Leninism/North Korea et al. as your representative of communism. (Cuba is not included because it actually functions as a successful 'communist' nation - whether you want to believe it or not. Did you know that the literacy rate in Cuba is higher than that of your beloved U.S.? Food for thought...) They are/were thinly-veiled dictatorships, they simply have/had different economic underpinnings than the traditional distatorships you know and loathe(maybe? W. Bush is edging pretty close, do you hate him? My guess is you wish he could run for a third term...). Close your mouth for once, open your mind and impartially listen. Hopefully there will be a day when I will take a peek at this blog (however slim a chance that may be) and not be struck speechless by your blind, relentless flag-waving idiocy.
OK Anon, I give up....you win...
That is as soon as I see the line of people pounding the door to get into Cuba, not the other way around (note people using '54 Buicks as rafts to try to get INTO the United States). Doesn't exactly sound like the paradise you make it out to be. I recommend YOU move there, seeing it is so very nice in your eyes. Oh, don't bother bringing anything as it will be confiscated the second you land and given to the "people", which is to say, whoever is ruling the place at the time.
Your name calling and false accusations (associating me with the GOP and Fox - y a w n) do not impress me. Neither does the track record of communism world wide. Nor should it you.
I won't stoop the level of name calling and the time tested strawman argument as you did. You should make your arguments like an adult instead of pathetic rants like the one you just posted.
Actually, I am the "anonymous" one who posted the pro-Commuism points. But I assure you I did not post, that reply with the insults ridden all over it.
My apologies if you thought it was me, I assure though my beliefs differ greatly from you, I can atleast respect your opinion and we can both have a mutual respect with one another. Once again though I'm not saying marx is a prophet or any other zealous cult of personality nonsense, but don't go useing Lenin and Co. as example of communism/soclialism. They are filth they perverted socialism and Hitler manipulated Capitalism into Fascism.
Just dont think im that child who posted the stupid remarks, I'm grown up enough to know mud slinging gets you no were.
Dan - you do great blogging. Keep it up.
Anonymous "Cheers" - I was under the impression that human nature, primarily, had something to do with survival, then procreation. Socialism and Communism (and Fascism) force indviduals to yield their instinct for survival to slave for the survival of the state (or society). Capitalism is filled with trashy folks and values, but it relies on the voluntary desires of individuals to better themselves (including survival), not coercion.
"...I just want their to be a place for the average joe to go and live outside of work to survive and outside of wages/money and bills and just live a life he can enjoy." You and this Capitalist Conservative Catholic Republican certainly agree on this.
see, all of you can prance around "knowing your history", but this jacket nowhere near equates a nazi jacket.
here's why:
the CCCP was a place, a geographical location
the nazis were a political party with infamous goals
therefore, this jacket much more equates itself with someone wearing a jacket that describes the physical location of the nazis i.e. "GERMANY", and i can't imagine anybody would feel offended by that kind of apparel.
Dearest Dan -
I am the "Name-Calling, False-Accusation-Slinging Anon". It is sad (and probably my fault for "ranting" as I did) that you took nothing from my posting other than the disgust I showed for the direction you took in the discussion the other 'Anon' was trying to have with you. That "name calling" and "time-tested strawman arguement" style that you so loathed in my 'rant' was in reality nothing other than your spewing reflected back your way. I personally wish that discussions such as the one that the other 'Anon' was trying to have were the rule instead of the exception, in this blog and the world at large. Calm down and discuss, not rant, as your learned debator was attempting. You, Dan, are as guilty of that as I.
And, for the record, I think ALL forms of government are inherently flawed (and, believe it or not, I believe that democracy is the best of those flawed options). All I was attempting to put forth was that there is more that one correct answer. Our democratic government has been hijacked by mega-corporations and those that benefit from them. The CCCP was posessed by a power-hungry megalomaniacal-dictator. And, yes, Cuba is not the answer for those on rafts (or you AND I) but there are those that are steadfastly loyal to the country and Castro and do see it as papadise on Earth. Who are you or I to begrudge them that? You know, all that Castro does in reality is outlaw greed....is that so wrong? I couldn't deal, but it's a temting ideal, is it not?
P.S. Has anyone ever heard of a starving, uneducated Cuban???
- The Ranting Anon
okay okay..you can all unwad your panties...its a freaking fashion issue...north face is serious climbing gear and the cccp..the LOCATION of many climbs..is being commercialized..they also have a kilamanjaro jacket...are any of you screaming about africa's 70% hiv rate and how tnf is exploiting that?
they have NO intention of glorifying the governmental model nor the social implications of communism. its a track jacket people..get over yourselves.
look, I grew up to the USSR and recently immigrated to the states. Though individuals such as Stalin did commit many horrendous crimes, the period from the 1960s to the 1980s was fairly stable and peaceful. Although we weren't as wealthy as our American counterparts, we lived decent lives. I understand that you have been taught that the USSR is evil since youth through propoganda, but the fact of the matter is, it was a country just like any other.
I have one and the ladies love it...you guys are lame.
As an American born and raised in the south I was fed all types of ussr or cccp propoganda believing we as americans were so much "better" however I woke up and opened my eyes to a real world view I have visited the former soviet union and see nothing but beauty sure they as a country made some mistakes but let us take a look at our own track record before we pass judgement on others should african americans boycott clothes that read USA or native americans stand together to stop the production of all usa branded clothing if you think you have not been fed propoganda perhaps you need to spend less time forming useless boycotts and more time studying foriegn culture from thier point of view not in a book written and published in the united states and fyi my husband is ukrainian and wears his cccp northface jacket with pride and yes the chicks do dig it
Anonymous - the comma key is right below the "k".
FYI we fought a war over slavery (being raised in the South you may have heard of it) called the CIVIL WAR. The United States was in the lead of abolishing slavery worldwide - that is, except for many countries in the Middle East and Africa who have slavery to this day.
The Soviet Union is, I am sure a beautiful place as you describe.
Your husband as a Ukranian should be most horrified of all about the CCCP thing. Stalin intentionally starved millions and millions of Ukrainians. If your husband thinks that is cool, I guess I don't know where to start. I am glad you dig his choice of fashion. Talk to any Ukrainian who survived that massacre and they would have quite a different view of things.
FYI, Dan, The U.S. was NOT on the forefront of abolishing slavery by any means. Of Western countries, it was one of the very latest. Even the UK had banned slavery by the 1860s. I would suggest BSing as an alternative to the truth, not your only ammo.
The estimate that the USSR killed over 100 mil is also interesting, as at its height there were only maybe 130-160 million citizens in that country. Of the famines, etcetera, in that country in the 20s, those could be attributed to bad infrastructure and negligence on the part of the local officials as anything. Still, by no means did 100 million die then. If you are including wars that occured between communists and capitalists during that time, your figures are quite flawed, for just as many deaths could be attributed to the US in that situation. The US can be blamed for an equal amount of tragedies as injustices during thee Cold War as well. The thing you must remember about history is its the winner who writes it. You many be reluctant to accept it, but we are hammered with just as much propaganda here in the US as the Soviet citizens were. Nothing is clear cut, and thats something you have to open your eyes and accept.
Andrew,
The US Civil was fought in the 1860's. The fact that the Brits were working on abolishing slavery at around the same time makes my point. Sadly many western countries (western europe, that is) didn't follow suit until much later.
Communism, in general is universally known to be directly responsible for somewhere between sixty and one hundred million deaths. I lean toward the one hundred million number but am not really a fan of corpse counting. CCCP is a symbol of communism just as the swastika is a symbol of nazism.
And don't be a total idiot - nobody ever said that communism killed 100 million people AT ONCE - it was over a period of decades.
For you to attribute the deaths of the Ukrainians to "bad infrastructure" is pathetic. Stalin starved them! You should be ashamed of yourself for that bit of lunacy. That must be the worst comment I have perhaps ever read on my many years crusing the web.
And your equating the USSR with the US as far as corpse counting goes is ridiculous as well.
yes you have the right to boycott this line, now I come from Russia and I find no offence in these in fact I also am a socialist and I live in amerika now but I think you are just over reacting. Also on the amerikan 20 dollar bill there is a picture of Andrew Jackson and he killed a lot of Native Americans also the Americans them self's held Japanese Americans in camps during ww2 why are we still have the u.s. flag? All sins are equale in the eyes of God...So now i say LET US BOYCOTT THE $20 BILL!!!!!!
ALSO FORGIVE AND FORGETT IT IS OVER!!!! The USSR fell
Well Matthew J, I guess that settles it. Back to Russia you go.
lol
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